Peterson, J. B. [Jordan B Peterson]. (2023, December 21). Discussing Communism in All Its Glory | Michael Malice | EP 407 [Video]. YouTube. https://youtu.be/3cVr2Qp_ic8
In this conversation, Jordan Peterson and Michael Malice discuss the grim realities of the Soviet Union, the nature of totalitarian regimes, and the importance of individual freedom. They begin by recounting historical examples of terror and brutality under Soviet rule, emphasizing the near-inconceivable horrors people endured. Through extracts from Malice’s book, The White Pill, they highlight the crushing of individual liberties, the torture and starvation of citizens, and the sheer extent of violence and deceit that characterized the communist state. Both Peterson and Malice stress that the Soviet regime’s brutality was not some distant aberration; its underlying logic and methods can emerge wherever ideology and compulsion trump voluntary cooperation, free speech, and mutual respect.
They note that while we universally condemn the Nazis, many in the West still fail to grasp or remember the Soviet Union’s atrocities. This collective amnesia, they argue, arises partly because people want to believe in the dream of a socialist workers’ paradise. Such hopes, however, consistently end in horror. The conversation underscores that the root cause lies in the intellectual arrogance of those who believe they can engineer utopia through centralized power and control. These planners inevitably crush dissent, reduce citizens to fearful subjects, and reward the most sadistic enforcers.
They contrast this with the ideal of voluntary association and decentralized decision-making. In a healthy society, relationships—personal, commercial, and civic—depend on people freely choosing to cooperate, rather than being coerced. Malice connects this principle to anarchism, which he defines not as chaos, but as a moral stance favoring voluntary organization over forced authority. He recognizes that ordering society exclusively around voluntary agreements is complex, yet argues it’s an ideal worth pursuing. Peterson agrees that stable, long-term cooperation is vital, noting that true individuality emerges within a framework of mutually beneficial relationships rather than through mere hedonism or short-term gain.
The two draw on the insights of Ayn Rand, who championed individualism and self-interest but viewed selfishness in a principled, long-range sense—focused on living by consistent moral values, not simply indulging whims. They emphasize that a person’s “self” should not be defined by fleeting desires or social validation, but by a deeper integrity. This integrity harmonizes personal aims with broader social cooperation, ensuring trust and meaningful exchange.
Throughout, Peterson and Malice return to core themes: freedom versus tyranny, truth versus lies, and the paramount importance of recognizing the individual as the fundamental unit of moral worth. In recounting the Soviet nightmare, they highlight why people must remain vigilant against any ideology that promises a perfect world if only given enough control. Instead, they advocate for a system that emerges from honest, voluntary interaction—one that nurtures maturity, responsibility, and character. Ultimately, the conversation points to hope, showing that even after decades of terror, the Soviet Union fell, and individuals reclaimed their lives. This victory suggests that genuine liberty, rooted in voluntary cooperation, can indeed prevail.